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Care & Creativity Panel Discussion

Updated: Dec 15, 2022

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MOLLY: Hello and welcome to the podcast where we talk about creating experimental art and trauma-informed and sustainable ways that support artists, our communities, and the organization as a whole. I'm Molly and you're listening to Any Other Anything's?

SARAH: The title for this panel is on Care and Creativity, which for me I see as in the performance space is something that goes hand in hand, right? Um, so I'm thinking we can open up the conversation on care and then walk away into creativity as we talk about how those two go hand in hand. So the first question I have for you three is when you think about care in digital performances what comes to mind?

FOX: So the first thing that comes to my mind is something that I had that I don't have a lot of experience doing myself, but I have experience like witnessing in uh in other performers and creators. Um the first thing that I think of is like uh twitch streams how um it's a very different form of media than say broadcast television, right? For the very simple reason that you have a chat window or like down or to the right wherever whoever is watching everybody in the audience has the opportunity to immediately engage with uh with the creator and the performer no matter what they're doing. Um, and it's up to the performer to decide what like what level of response they're going to give or what kind of interaction that they're going to have but I've found that especially in the streamers that I've watched who are who are like Trans or LGBTQ generally streamers one thing that I'm so heartened by is seeing how those folks create these caring supportive like safe environments for people to be themselves and also to hang out and just do normal things together, like watch somebody play a video game. And, so that's what I think about is, is digital media and especially live digital media gives us this opportunity to connect directly with people which works in a way different way than like audience participation has in the past or would in like a physical medium so, that's that's where I go first.

SARAH: Cool! So you're thinking a lot about um, because audience participation and maybe has more of a like like in-person energy or maybe you're like like do I touch this person or do I not? Now that that's gone you're thinking about how does it show up in a different way when it's a very like controlled and mediated um wave interaction right they only have one option and one way of interacting with the person streaming.

FOX: Yeah, yeah I agree because um because that I feel like we've all been in a situation where we've been asked to participate as an audience member where we weren't expecting it, right? And, there is that question of like to what level like to what extent am I supposed to engage and like what's, what's okay and what's not okay. Um, and that is one of the cool things about the digital digital space like that where all you have is text as an audience member like you have the chat window and the streamer can speak and and do anything else. Um, so yeah like limiting that engagement or that mode of engagement I think allows for a lot more freedom because you have like you know exactly the limits of what your interaction can be.

CHELSEA: Thank you. Um, as far as care I immediately think of I guess digital burnout or media burnout. I guess I think a lot of times we assume because we're working from home we're like fine you have all like one as a performer you don't feel like you have any room to be like you don't feel as comfortable saying, I'm so exhausted because that's hard to say when you're at home, but it's like very true. And, then sometimes if you're like maybe in that leadership or director role you can't you might be like everyone should be totally energetic and energized because they're in their homes but it's like not the case you actually get burnt out a lot faster online. Um, and like there's not that much good about like staring, especially doing these things on Zoom something's been really hard for me as far as like self-care is like having to constantly like see yourself um because that's something I actually don't even like about like doing like film stuff and this is like I'm constantly in my own face. Um, so I guess figuring out how we can work around those factors to create a more caring environment.

BRIANA: I think something that's been coming up for me lately is I'm very introverted and being in the digital world it's like I'm sharing the most intimate part of my life with everybody online and that's that's been really hard to adjust to um and, also with like family members or the people that I live with usually I keep my creativity like in the studio and then I have like my home life and sometimes maybe I'm, I'm working at home too but, I'm never creating like dances or anything in front of my partner necessarily but right now I am. And it's it's almost like someone's watching me create right now like it's that's been an interesting adjustment as far as care goes and and knowing that like I don't know I-I can disconnect and be away from the computer and I don't have to constantly be sharing these intimate parts of my life online.

SARAH: And your cat! So I guess what I'm thinking about now is as you were doing On Repeat and assets in seats. What was the conversation like in terms of care in these different ways that you were talking about? And, how did that influence in the way in which you used your creativity as collaborators for each of the performances or did the conversation happen at all?

CHELSEA: Well I think one great thing about especially in Grey Box that I don't necessarily experience in every other company I've worked with is that we always do a check-in and we always do a check-out. Um, which might not be as intentional about enforcing like care and safety I guess but at least we always know where the other people in our group are kind of starting from. Um, and I think as we got more comfortable with each other too um, because for this piece this was the first time working with Brianna, also in like a digital space. Um, so I feel like we learned a lot about each other kind of throughout the process and it took us a little bit longer to like be more vulnerable where we could kind of express ourselves that way. So, I think I think we started checking-in a little bit more as we like dug deeper into the process and got more comfortable with one another.

SARAH: Thank you.

FOX: As far, as asses in seats go I can say that the uh that the question didn't really come up in terms of like in terms of like care as it relates to audience experience um but I do think that even though it wasn't like necessarily an explicit uh conversation that it was that part of the navigation of rehearsal and devising for asses in seats was very much about care for each other as performers and collaborators, right? So, um so it was very like a very flexible and open sort of rehearsal schedule where we had like we left plenty of time for the rest of our life to happen and have tons of time to recharge and also make sure that it fit in with everybody else's schedule. And, I think really uh one of the decisions that we made which was now that I think about it more uh more about care for us as performers was probably the idea to uh to keep both the chat window closed and uh and everybody else's cameras off uh during asses in seats, because we were like the the direction that we decided to take the, the piece was more focused on this very presentational sort of thing. Where the interaction was between each other um so you have you still have that decentralized sort of thing that you can only have online where it's like a bunch of people in their own rooms um, but not necessarily opening that up to the entire audience as uh as the purpose of this uh at least this version of it.

BRIANA: And, then I would say in On Repeat um while we were checking-in and of course getting more vulnerable over time it became really fun too. Um, because of the nature of the piece that we created it became really fun to go through Chelsea's makeup tutorial um if if everyone here assuming everyone here saw On Repeat um Chelsea had a really fun makeup tutorial and it was just something I always looked forward to when we were going through the performance so it was kind of like getting with your friends, which I consider an active self-care like to socialize and have fun with your friends so in a way the performance was taking care of us.

SARAH: Yeah I really like that and it's I think a lot about how um the parameters that were set up for um assets in seats and On Repeat people very different in that for On Repeat the chat box is wide open, right? Touched on the point about how the chat box being open can also make you more vulnerable as a performer because anyone can just type anything and you can't filter that and it makes me think about how in live performance we can't control, how the audience is going to respond in the moment either but maybe there's like a set of like audience rules or like social norms that they've already been trained in um that maybe don't exist on Zoom any...well don't exist on Zoom yet, right? With like people who Zoom bomb um and the fears of that coming up. And, how we're finding different ways to learn about what Zoom etiquette is I think that's very it sounds like that's what's slowly happening as more online performances happen so that's really fascinating for me to think about, especially since all of you also wore director hats right as as collaborators in the device process. Um, so now we're gonna expand to beyond just On Repeat and assets in seats but, how has creativity maybe shifted in your own personal life if it has it all during this time during this time? It can be in relation to COVID, it can be in relation to quarantine, it can be in relation to what's going on in the world with Black Lives Matter movement and any other um political thing that's going on. Um, how do you feel like your creativity might have may have shifted it during this time as you're trying to create in your different spaces?

FOX: Uh I'll start I think that um my creativity has been like the the motivation is uh is higher than than before say for example quarantine, uh in COVID in general. Um, I would say that that's probably personally just more like a function of of cabin fever uh because I know that um I know for myself that I am in a better that I am always in a better state of mental health if I am creating something, if I'm making uh if I'm making uh art or something like it. So, um so I think that the like I definitely noticed an uptick in uh in motivation now uh actually putting pen to paper or like do it like making something has been much more difficult for a number of reasons which I would say like I feel like my schedule is way busier now than it ever was before COVID, right? Like, uh I have a lot more things that uh and, and like interactions that happen online now that demand my attention on a much more regular basis than uh than they used to. And, so it's actually harder to find time or to set aside time to say, 'okay cool I'm just gonna noodle right or I'm just gonna compost a little bit to get like the juices flowing and then have uh like have a like a space to actually make something.' Um, because it's also we're also going through like a collective trauma, right? Like it's not just uh hey everything's kind of on hold now just do whatever you want to do like it's the world's going crazy go like it's like it's way heavier than it then it feels like it should be because we're just staying at home, right? Um, and I start to question like what my role is as an artist in all of that, right? Like, and especially now like you mentioned with the Black Lives Matter movement. And, like my voice is absolutely less important than a lot of people's voices for this particular moment and probably in general, um I'll own that. But, uh so that also like that enters into it too like I have to temper my my desire to create things with that, with that need to to hold space for other people whose voices should be heard right now and I don't know how good of a job I'm doing at it but I'd like to do better, you know? I feel like I've hit a lot of points and I'm sort of just rambling so I'm going to I'm going to pass it off to y'all.

CHELSEA: Great. Thank you.

BRIANA: Um creativity has really felt kind of like a wave to me lately it's like I go through periods of being uninspired and unmotivated and then just like bursts of like energy and wanting to do things and create things and being really inspired and then kind of touched on making space for other creators I've kind of turned my Instagram lately into just like sharing information and whatnot from other creators and other things that other people have written. But, I've also been taking a lot of time to write on my own that I haven't had time for um before this and I haven't really had a desire to write so much as I have lately during the quarantine and, um, yeah. I think writing has come back a lot but I was working with Kazo Dance Company and we have shifted the dates for a performance three times until the show was actually cancelled and, then I had an audition with them last week and at the door before we went into the studio we got our temperatures checked we got a towel to bring in to wipe sweat throughout class and every like 15 minutes maybe it felt like we went and we washed our hands. So that was an interesting studio experience but, yeah it's been my creative life.

SARAH: Yeah, that's interesting because it feels like it breaks if you're like on a creative train it feels like you need to take out stops in between to wash your hands.


SARAH: Chelsea, did you have any thoughts on this one?

CHELSEA: Yeah. Um it was interesting at the beginning of all this because I had been working, like I was getting my teaching certification so I was going to I was teaching five days a week regular teacher hours but, then on top of that I still to go to my pain. I'd go to a job to make money and then on top of that like sketch group it was just like 70 hours a week spent just like not being home. So, when all this happened I'm like finally time to be so creative, but I was like when I'm home apparently like I like I have to be busy to actually like feel creative, I guess. And, I saw like, I was like this meme or something it was like for all those people who said they just needed time and aren't doing anything like you're just lazy. And, then that just like hit me. I was like, 'oh my gosh' but then I read other stuff that was like, 'no you need it'. Like it's okay to just like rest during this time. Um, so I kind of took that mentality and resting actually has been super helpful and I think as I move forward as a performer that's gonna help me in the long run. Right now I'm just focusing more on just listening. Um I miss this white person so, at the moment like I feel like my voice is not me, it definitely does not need to be that loud and it's a great time to be listening and I've had so much time to read, actually like more literature and things that I'd like to read about just being like learning about police brutality and all that and like reading about communities without police and stuff. And, it's actually super interesting and finding ways to donate because I think before I didn't really know how to be and quote unquote ally or how to like really help a movement and like having all this like time off and so many people using like being active on social media I feel like I've learned so much about how to be like more effective and how I support other causes.

SARAH: Awesome, thank you. It sounds like all of you. It sounds like part of the creativity is also in figuring out if we thinking about like process versus versus products, right? What kinds of products are we producing or sharing as a way of supporting our current community in the ways that they need it? Um, and I think that's very, that's something that um is like difficult to to answer in the moment, right? But, it's a reflection of the way in which social media is so prolific and the way social media can continue movements and strengthen movements. Um, so then thinking about how we are using on our own social media to share our arts because I know a lot of um a lot of my dancer friends have their own Instagram, right? Whereas, like their improv dances are posted, right? But, then how we like Brianna, that you say that you were sharing other people's art I'm seeing a lot of other celebrities do the same thing. Where they have um a black person take over their Instagram account just so that their voices are getting shown on their account since they have since they are like the white person in this space who is like a very famous celebrity with a lot of um followers. So I think it's exciting. I think it's exciting how people are seeing the way in which the online space and, the arts can be used in different ways to to support what's going on in the world now and hopefully improve it. Um, so then that brings me to my last formal question uh before the Q & A so if you could predict the future um how do you think this increase in digital performances and creative works can or may influence the post quarantine world? This can be in regards to creativity it can be in regards to care or both.

FOX: It reminds me of a conversation I was having the other the other night with uh with a couple of colleagues from Howell theater project. Um, who uh were were another sort of small experimental Phoenix theater um, and we were talking about um we were talking about what it's going to be like when uh when we go when we sort of go back if whatever that looks, like even if that is even a thing anymore, right? But, like that's a that's another so assuming that we like we figure this out and we can go back to uh to like not social distancing all of the time and a much more normal looking kind of day-to-day interaction with people the thing that we were talking about was that people are going to it's our opinion and we could be wrong, right? But it's our opinion that people are going to crave live performance in a way that I don't think we have in a long time. I mean like we're theater nerds, right? And, performers and stuff so like we get it but like a lot of people it's not really in their in their zeitgeist or their or their paradigm you know because it's like you you watch tv or you go to movies and things like that and like maybe you go to a musical occasionally because your mom wants to go, right?

But, um yeah I think that it's because we're already feeling that like that's that emotional thirst um and hunger that we that we've been starved for and like interacting with people in a in a face-to-face kind of environment and I think that that is going to be one of the things that we're going to see a resurgence of uh of people wanting to go and look at bodies, right? Like doing interesting things you know what I mean? Um, but in terms of so like I think that's going to be like uh like a whiplash effect of all of this but, directly in terms of like how it's going to affect say digital performance. I think it's uh I think it's going to be a huge opportunity like watching as all of the the coming months and years unfold uh to see new conversations like this about what did what the role of digital media is, right? And, how we have these new technologies that that give us immediacy of access and interaction with performers and presenters and things like that in a way that is pretty different from from how it's been before uh so I think that we're like we're gonna see like a retro vibe of everybody being like I want to see a live theater but, also I think we're going to see a huge explosion of different ways of being a person that is in front of other people on the internet. Um, yeah and different ways of thinking about what it's like to be an audience member and how I how I engage with and uh, and interact with the media that I consume as opposed to just being presented with something grabbing it from you know Netflix or on demand or whatever. Um, and consuming it passively like I think it's uh it's the wild west like it's a huge frontier of uh of of active media that is going to change the way that we think about interaction and performance. And, if that's not sufficiently vague I don't know what it is. So, I'll stop.


SARAH: That's really fascinating. I...yeah that I had different theories on that also, and then the protests happened. I was like, 'oh' and now we're all seeing each other. Um, but Brianna and Chelsea, what thoughts do you have?

CHELSEA: Yeah. I hope um I'm optimistic that this will hopefully, I guess like open up our world um it's I don't know it's interesting because we like all the technology we're using we've like already had for like quite some time, but would like I don't know if it's been like a hesitation to like bring it into live theater or whatnot to like a full extent. But, I'm like why can't like my friend that lives in Switzerland come see my live Grey Box performance and doing this online I'm like there's really no reason, like set up a camera and chair; girl can log in and she's there. So, I'm hoping that it can open up and expand our audience and also for us to see perform maybe we can even work with performers from different, like, I don't think you need to be I guess in Arizona to work with other Arizona artists. So, I'm excited to see that hopefully um that kind of sticks, because I know there's been a lot of theater companies just working with people that are just all over the place. So, I hope that kind of sticks around as we as things hopefully eventually go back to whatever normal looks like.

BRIANA: Yeah. Um, I would say as a positive and branching off of what Chelsea's kind of talking about accessibility is really cool that a lot of people are getting exposure to art that wouldn't necessarily be in an audience, if they weren't given the opportunity to watch it at home. Um, so I think that's really important and really just does broaden our audience. I do definitely crave being back on a stage with other bodies and connecting with other bodies though. Um, yeah just being able to like hug people in person and like I don't know like put my face on them and I really value those things as a performer. I hope that the future doesn't mean that we are just behind screens but, if we can have a little bit of both in some way then that would be amazing.

SARAH: Yeah. I love putting your face on somebody. It was very much a dancer thing. Like, I'm just going to put my face on you. [LAUGHS]

FOX: [LAUGHS] We can have a little human contact as a treat.

CHELSEA: I just want to meet Brianna. That's up on my list.

I want to lay my head on you.

SARAH: We'll do this.

FOX: Yeah, maybe a resurgence of all of those like old uh infant alley songs of like 'Cheek to Cheek' and 'Put Your Head on the Shoulder'.


SARAH: Oh boy. Okay so I'm gonna open it up to you all you can either you can either and un-mute yourselves and turn on your video to ask a question or you can type in the chat box if that's what you prefer but I'm handing it over. Um, oh Ji Sun.

JI SUN: Hi, my familiar faces um I-I have a question: what, what are your opinions or thoughts that how these like performers who are traditionally trained as like live performers? Uh, how they're gonna compete with like Youtubers, because like if we just like keep having this kind of like platform all those Youtubers they already like know how to how to allure um their viewers and how to interact with them and I and that's one of the questions that we had when we prepare for our performance, right? Like, whether we're gonna let audiences keep chatting or acting, but that's some kind of like default for the people. I'll just say like a general people when they watch something live online versus when you think about theater it feels like you just need to be quiet and then watch it and if you have an opinion just shut and like grab it and then whether you can share it with artists it you maybe you can, maybe you can't. Maybe, just have something like to talk with your friend but not to the artist but, like but Youtuber kind of like online broadcasting is really different they just like keep shouting out and that's the virtue of it so, like, why do you think that how we can compete or if we we don't even we or do we even have to compete?

SARAH: That's a great question. Um any one of you can answer if you have a if you have a thought

FOX: Sure. Go ahead. I keep talking first, you go ahead.

CHELSEA: No I-I don't really feel I guess like I'm competing. I mean there's plenty of like Broadway, I don't feel like I'm in direct competition with like Broadway actors doing like 'Hamilton' and I will say they're like probably doing like way bigger better stuff and, like have like more money to do production than like I do. And, that's totally okay. Like, I'm still here doing my own like Indie theater thing and if that's online, it's online. But, I think it is useful to know a lot of like things that Youtubers do or people even who like podcasts or just use any digital like tool like, that I think it's good to like build your actors toolbox, and I think as a live performer I need to start building. I need to start like it's just like you always do we always progress like I just need to start building up like adding more, more tools to the toolbox to keep with that metaphor, I guess. Um, so I think it's worth learning and like knowing how to like be decent at it just to kind of keep up with like the times.

FOX: Yeah I agree. Um, I think it I-I think it'll be useful to us um to the extent that we want to to learn, to learn and acquire the kinds of tools that uh that digital content creators have already been establishing, right? Like, there's tons of best practices in those markets that I know nothing about. That I'm sure work really well and might even be super applicable to the kind of work that we want to make the question for me feels like, [COUGHS] excuse me, uh it feels like the way the answer to that question has everything to do with to what extent do we want to occupy the same market, quote-unquote or niche really. As, uh as those kinds of creators so like, for example taking the example of uh of On Repeat, asses in seats um On Repeat y'all definitely did more of the uh the like current live internet broadcasting kind of thing where it's like you can be there you can be on screen too if you want. You can be up in the chat, you can be talking about whatever and it will influence like it at to whatever extent that we are looking at it. It will influence and filter into the performance itself and become part of this interactive and like give and take kind of world. Whereas with asses in seats we specifically were like no this is going to be much more of a traditional thing we're just going to use different media in it but it's still presentational, right? Um, so in that case I would say that we that we were focusing less on occupying the same niche and more on using the same kind of materials or using the same kinds of tools as our materials in the creation of a piece. So, yeah I think the opportunity is there for us to to really call whatever best best practices that uh that are useful to us, and I think it's also kind of good that a lot of us as live performers like especially talking about like, specifically, Grey Box.

We're like we're a small house uh we're like uh definitely an indie experimental theater kind of operation where it's like, first of all we're not even on the same playing field as say somebody on YouTube who has a million subscribers, right? Um, so maybe not. I don't know. I have probably a hand like probably five YouTube subscribers I think, but I've also haven't been put anything on there in like years, right? Um, but yeah I think that we have the opportunity since we're newcomers into this uh into this space into this world to try out a bunch of different things especially, since we're working under the like the the banner of experimental performance. Um I don't know like, if we can compete or if we should but, I think that we should try and see how it works and see if even if we can't compete like even if some of those things are just like, 'oh cool I never thought about doing it like that', and then that becomes something that we can incorporate and, maybe, even take back into the live world; if we get back there, right? Like I think it's a huge opportunity for I hate this term but like cross-pollination, right? In art, um yeah like we have the opportunity to uh to steal from a lot of successful people and use it in an environment that's more suited to it so yeah that's, that's what I have to say.

BRIANA: It feels like there's a lot of what I was thinking about um in terms of competing or not competing but, then something that came up as I was listening was do we have more of an influx of people now consuming media, as well, so there's more of an audience online. Um that would normally be seeing our live performances who will then continue to see the digital performances I think that that is definitely helpful for transitioning to a digital world is that there is a bit of an audience already built and, then maybe the audience grows because as someone who would be consuming the same content in another state is now given the opportunity to attend the same digital performance or live performance.

SARAH: Awesome, this is so exciting? Chris, you had a question?

CHRIS: I do. Um, hello everyone the thing that I'm I've been thinking a lot about since I um watched asses in seats, and um you know there's other digital performances that have been happening. Um, would be like we're all using tools right now to do experimental performance that weren't designed for experimental performance, right? So, what given given your experiences recently with uh you know asses in seats and uh, um, uh what's the other On Repeat what would like if you could like like to just spitball dream up this ridiculous piece of technology to help with that sort of thing, what would it be, right? We all know what opportunity, what tools what what Zoom can do. What are things Zoom can't do that you'd like to throw in there that might be interesting ways to for storytelling?

FOX: I think some of the things that um I think some of the things that I wanted when we first started uh playing on Zoom we discovered eventually that there that it does kind of exist in Zoom, right? So, like for example one of the things that I really wanted to incorporate that we didn't get a chance to get to, because of you know, time. Um, was uh was sound design was uh audio was um was like live composition or so or anything like that. Um, and we we struggled for weeks until we figured out that it was just an option um that is in Zoom is that you can share just your computer audio, right? Um, and so like that was the thing that we knew we had in our back pocket if we wanted to come back to that and say, 'okay cool now I can do uh like I can do the score or the sound design or whatever, like an atmosphere that's in there and then it will be like it'll be shared out as like as another audio track to the whole thing.' Um those things though if I like if you want to know dreaming big and stuff like that I'm gonna get nit-picky about it, right? Because, like there's lag involved like there's a there's a huge latency thing where it's like the only way that I can monitor myself is to listen to it through the Zoom feed, which is already gonna be a handful of milliseconds delayed, which means that I'm going to be listening to myself playing something seconds after it's happening or like fractions of seconds, you know. But that becomes uh that becomes a hurdle to overcome, right? And, that's a hurdle that I've had difficulty trying to overcome if even if trying to do the same sort of thing on uh say OBS, like on online broadcasting software, it's a similar sort of thing where like the monitor or the only monitor that I have still spits out at a latency. So, um I'm interested in finding solutions that uh that allow for that zero latency sort of feedback as a like as a performer specifically to say, 'okay cool like now I can take uh now I can take my me right here and send it through my powerful computer that has all of these things available,' um and be able to have like immediate monitoring on it so I can say, 'okay cool now I'm going to add an effect on my voice or I'm going to play something or set up a loop,' and be able to time it like more with greater precision to everybody else.

Um, I think that that is something that I want to see a lot more of and that's where I would like to move next is uh is doing a similar sort of thing that I have done in the past with Grey Box in terms of like live accompaniment um, which is cool because you can all now you have the the problem of dealing with like overall latency over every from an end-to-end perspective in a decentralized sort of network. So, um yeah I want to see solutions for that I want to see solutions where you can take and not only that but, also take everybody's video feed and mix it like you would mix it in a television studio as opposed to like oh it's only in gallery view and I can only see this grid of how Zoom decides to display people on the screen. No, I want full control over every video feed and how, where to put it when it comes in, I want transition, I want fade, I want effects, I want all of that. Um, I think to a limited extent some of those features are available in something like obs like, uh, like what you would use for Twitch or YouTube, but it's the question that I have is how do you start incorporating different audio video feeds from decentralized locations and say, 'okay cool, now I can manipulate just Chelsea's raw feed independent of everybody else's,' and, and all of that. That's what I want.

CHRIS: Well, yeah and that allows for a really interesting way to you know give the audience a very specific experience in a very specific way of storytelling. Like you have a lot of you know the more control you have over the minutiae of that the more detail you can apply.

CHELSEA: Um, it's interesting what you said Chris saying a lot of this tech isn't necessarily set up for the experimental but, I think back to like when YouTube first came out like early 2000s, it was like such an experimental space; like some of the videos that were getting popular like, I don't know. You guys remember 'shoes' as an example, like that video makes no freaking sense but it was like...

FOX: Oh my god 'shoes'!

CHELSEA: Yeah! But, I've never seen anything like it so it was like so exciting and I'm like I feel like it was successful, because like they just like went for it. They did a thing and then like more videos like that started coming out or like most popular girls in school is like all Barbie doll like stop-motion; like it is a very experimental space if you're like willing to play with it and put just be willing to put produce stuff and put it out there and see what people get. Um, I would personally love it if you could do like a Soundcloud type thing that's like more like, called, like cause on Soundcloud I know some people put out beats and then some like singers will use those beats and then collaborate with whoever mixed it and then sing with them. It'd be kind of cool to do like score my performance. You just put in like a video of you doing like movement or acting and then someone who does music can go in and collaborate with you or you can perform to someone's content. So, I guess there's some kind of um tik tok vibes in there too, because that's something that's happening on tik tok. Is people here there's a lot of sound bites and so people will do a tik tok of themselves like recreating that um but I'd like to see that in like a bigger mode where we can collaborate more with people.

FOX: I really like that, I really like that it makes me think a lot about um that makes me think a lot about composition in terms of uh in terms of repetition, right? In terms of like instead of uh instead of this is one thing and it goes from it starts here and it ends here and it and it does this shape consistently like a movie, right? Um, uh or even like a play, but there's always variations but, um but instead of that the variation becomes here's this template, right? Like to go with the tik tok kind of thing, like here's this shape that we've created and now you the whole point is that you take this and fill this shape with whatever it is that that is your thing. Um, in like in a sense sort of crowdsourcing that uh that entertainment or that art so to speak I think that's a really I think that's a really cool avenue to go down in terms of content creation and, also like thinking about decentralized performance and asynchronous performance too. So, like creating things that can be that that are now instantaneous and everywhere um and, also infinitely varied because it's just what everybody is doing with it. Um, so thinking about creating shells for people to fill um I like that a lot.

SARAH: Yeah. I know this is a thing you can do on Zoom because it happened to my friend while she was teaching, but in some way you can go into someone's feed because she was doing a screen-share and then a red marker started showing up because one of the kids got into that feature. So, I don't know that feature but, if you can figure it out you can draw on someone's screen. Um...

FOX: That's cool.

LAUREN: It's the annotate feature.

SARAH: What?

SARAH: It's the annotate feature and while someone's screen-sharing, there's the little toolbar that shows up and it gives you options and it's supposed to be you can even open up like a whiteboard in there. So, like if you wanted to work out like a math problem. Sorry, I'm like speaking teacher mode. If you wanted to work out like a math problem or something or like show your work or like oh I don't understand this part but, like anyone can go in and circle it; which is scary and precious all at once.

SARAH: I love this knowledge here. Now we're sharing Zoom knowledge and how to use it in the creative space. Um, we are almost out of time. So, if you have any other questions for the four the panelists feel free to drop in the chat box and maybe we can answer it on the Facebook group. Um, because I want to make sure that I'm respectful of everyone's time over here so I like to loop it back to the panelists and just ask you all based on the conversation that we've had in this past hour what are you thinking about? Um, and let's go backwards so we'll start with Brianna. Wait, I don't remember who went first. Let's go with Brianna because I haven't heard you in a while.

BRIANA: Um, I'm thinking about possibilities, just so many different possibilities that you have with technology and platforms. That's really what's going through my mind right now. What about you Chelsea?

CHELSEA: Um, I'm thinking of old content because I was bringing up all those old YouTube videos but, like I don't know maybe just re-exploring like early roots of like new millennium experimental art because, I think it's fun to go back down those avenues and, then see where you wind up. Um, so I'm thinking about what that looks like. And, then also like all of us becoming entrepreneurs and starting our new version of Soundcloud so. we're all gonna be rich. You're welcome!

FOX: It's about time. [LAUGHS] Yeah, um check out my Soundcloud for real though. Uh anyway, I, no, I'm thinking about I'm also thinking about possibilities and uh, now Chelsea you got me thinking about this tik tok thing. Um, and like super interested in seeing how that would work but also like, I'm trying to temper my excitement for that idea with the hesitation that's like, the oh don't make it lame, right? Like don't make it the thing that's like the that's like, the oh yeah you can do this thing and you play along with us. Like it's gotta be like it trying to make a meme, right? Like you can't just try to make a meme it's gotta happen. So, um so like I think that the opportunity is there and the technology is there for that kind of uh for that kind of work to be done but, I don't want it to turn into some sort of like branded alternate real like uh alternate reality game, right? Where it's like oh yeah hold your phone in the world and you can discover a free whopper uh, you know? Um, um, so yeah I'm interested in how to work that in terms of uh in terms of consent for like audience participation that kind of idea but, also in terms of uh in terms of accessibility, right? Um, and in terms of what is the like what is the point is it a gimmick or is it an actual thing like is it about the investigation of that interaction between people and technology or is it just about like, "hey we can put this on our Facebook page and make it a marketing tool," right? Um, so yeah I'm very curious about that frontier. How about you Sarah?

SARAH: Oh, I'm not, I'm like I haven't answered any of the questions um what am I thinking about I'm thinking about how it was just so fun to listen to the three of you. Um, and how you all are just doing like really amazing work and I feel like all your responses are super thoughtful. Um, and I'm excited for the people who are here and the questions they had, because I feel like this is a question that everyone's thinking about. Um, especially if you're a creator and a lot of us have hopes about where it can go but, we really don't know, right? And, we don't know how long that's gonna take either. So part of me also feels like a community here of like confused artists about in the digital sphere. So, that feels it feels nice to feel this community um...but yeah. Um, thank you all! Thank you everybody for showing up tonight um this is really exciting and I hope you got something out of it. Um it's weird because your cameras are not on, but Grey Box has this thing which we call seal-it um where you will clap and you will raise a flexed foot at the same time. Um, so if you would like to participate we will try that together. I'm not going to do the kick, because actually I'm in a dress and if I kick it's not going to be great. Okay, but we'll just want to show these cameras.

*clap, clap, clap* [LAUGHS]

SARAH: Yay that was so great! Even though I know some people have lucky cameras. Okay, bye everybody! Thank you!

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