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AOA S4 E8: A Frenetic Do-Over: Season Seven

Hello and welcome to a podcast about creating experimental art in trauma-informed and sustainable ways that support artists, our communities, and the organization as a whole. You're listening to Any Other Anythings. And in this season, we are focused on the journey of Grey Box Collective, and we will take you through from the very beginning, before Grey Box Collective even existed, and all the way through to present day, and talk about what the future of Grey Box Collective might include as well. Highly recommend listening to this season in chronological order since it is somewhat building upon each part of it, but it's up to you if you want to take a nonlinear approach. Appreciate that. Respect that, and hope you enjoy this journey of Grey Box Collective.

All right, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Any Other Anythings. I am your host, Molly. I am the Founder and Creative Producer of Grey Box Collective, and we are going through, kind of the journey of Grey Box Collective and we are on season seven, which is the last full season that I will be talking about. Because my brain decided that now is a good time to do this reflection, and it's mid-season eight. So it feels a little funky in terms of timing, but here we are and doing it anyway. And so season seven, I kind of alluded to it in the previous episode that this was like, it was a Murphy's law of a season - everything that could go wrong did. But it also felt like this frenetic do-over like a really high energy, lots going on - honestly, way too much going on. It was an overwhelming season. Yes, there it is, that's what it was. But I, it's, you know, it's interesting, this was also a season where I made a playlist - I'm very proud of my playlist it’s one of the things that I miss the most from my teaching days both in fitness and the dance world is like making a good playlist and finding like the right songs for the right warm-up, or the right workout or flow or whatever it was that I was teaching -And so I was like, “well, I have, I have Grey Box as an option”. Okay, so checking in. Let's see, how am I doing, any care-to-shares,  need-to-knows in the space. You know I think I was anticipating this being a difficult episode to share, but now that we're here, I'm, I'm feeling ready for it. I think that what I have brought up in previous seasons or previous episodes talking about the seasons, it just feels like, I don't know - there's a solid foundation on it and or solid foundation has been laid before this episode, so I'm feeling pretty good. 

So I will, let's see, I guess I'll continue to just go with like the very straight up basic, what happened in season seven-ish kind of a thing. Yeah. So with season seven, there was kind of a reboot of PAUSE... which was the performance that we had created the season before around grief and loss and transformation. And that was, like a little micro reboot happened there, and so that stayed as kind of part of our repertoire for this season seven. And then we also rebooted Understanding Otherness. And so Understanding Otherness was presented originally in season one, and it made a comeback, and I don't remember exactly why I was like, “it's time to revisit this work”. But yeah, and I should say, like, when I say revisit, meaning I'm like planting the seed, like the show's gonna be focused, our creative work is gonna be focused on Understanding Otherness, and then it's like, who wants to, you know, water this seed and watch it grow with me. And so Understanding Otherness was being revisited as a topic in fall 2022. And I will say now we are in, I'm recording this, it is, I guess technically spring 2024, and we're still going strong with continuing to explore and, and this work Understanding Otherness just seems to have really peaked in interest that I was not anticipating - partially because like we did this show before, the title was out there before, but there's something about the timing, right? Timing is so important and I think kind of the cyclical nature of iterative work and also the cyclical nature of even Trauma-Informed Creative Practices and all of that work that is a part of Grey Box Collective. There is something with the timing of it, and that's why I think cyclical work or iterative work is so important to return to because it could be that it just needed the right time for us to show up.

And so also in season seven we rebooted our podcast - we actually recorded two seasons of our podcast in season seven. And with that, it was interviews with creatives and then we kind of - I call it a daisy chain, like everyone alternated being interviewed and then hosting and interviewing someone else. So it was cool to kind of see that ripple throughout the season. We continued our partnership with La Frontera and we performed again at Take Back the Night. We began a partnership with the Tempe Union High School District and the City of Tempe Human Relations Commission, as well as City of Tempe Mayor's Youth Council. Those were all things that we, those were all new-er partnerships, some of that groundwork had actually been laid prior to, I don't think I mentioned that, but yeah. And then funding wise, we again received pretty consistent funding from our local granting organizations again, so that was the second season in a row that we had operational support as well as project support. And this was also with now the LLC and 501c3 setup, so that was changing some things behind the scenes. I had also – during fall 2022 I was a part of the Beth Morrison Project's Producers Academy and then also part of Rail CDC - which is a local organization in Mesa, Arizona - part of their creative academy. So I was also going through a fair amount of professional development during this season. Like I feel that some of the work that I had done with Clarinda and the Decolonizing Business School was really pivotal for me, and then this just allowed me to continue to coast with that kind of transformational work and really, yeah - like massive changes for myself, as an entrepreneur this season in season seven. I called it kind of this like entrepreneurial growth spurt and that comes with growing pains, which yeah, there is no shortage of with season seven.

So yeah. And then, okay, so Understanding Otherness, we also continued the digital creative team as well as the in-person creative team. So we had this time separately 'cause the prologue and epilogue thing. It was cool, but I think because we were outside and just the way that it was presented it didn't really feel as deeply connected, so we gave ourselves permission in this next round to like fully allow each project to be its own. And I think that allowed for a certain level of expansiveness with the, the, like, conceptually with those projects. 

So as I was saying this was like Murphy's law of a season where everything that could go wrong did from like all aspects. And naming that, as I've said in previous episodes, like, you know, this journey is not just my journey. So, because a lot of, like those things that went wrong involve way more humans than me, I'm not gonna go into details - and I will say that it was like this, like I kept questioning like, are things falling apart or are things falling together? And then I had this moment of being like, oh shit, it's both at once, right? So if you can, like, imagine a Jenga tower, like, you know, the wooden blocks that stack up like falling - imagine that also happening in reverse. And like you overlay that image so like you see things falling apart while simultaneously things are falling together, and that was this season. So it was, it was a lot y'all, and kind of echoing some of the stuff I've said in previous seasons of like, it was just like, get through it right, when you're going through hell just keep going - that was the season. Because there was a lot that like, there's this shifting of the tides that happened, and I'm bouncing all over the place with like symbolism and metaphors - so I hope that your brain is along for this journey. There's a shifting to the tides, you know. So much of the previous seasons had been about seeking out opportunities and making things happen, and then there was this shift in the tides where I felt that others were seeking us out and creating opportunities for Grey Box Collective, which is gorgeous. And it happened simultaneously, like we had already sought out all these opportunities and then people were like, “hey, let's also create some for you” which is very exciting and then also overwhelming. And so I think I mentioned in the previous episode that this time of year, while I'm recording this, I've done a lot of review of like my own personal astrology over the past year of 2023 and, there, it was, well, gosh, it was just wild to go through and listen to the astrology of this period. Now looking back and reflecting on it, and one of the things that came up in that astrology reading was how there was going to be abundance, but abundance without infrastructure is just gonna be overwhelming. Because so much happened so quickly, there really weren't systems in place to support all of that abundance coming in. So therefore, abundance just became like, there's a lot of shit happening and you can't really enjoy it. And I think we hear so often about, you know, dismantling systems and systems of oppression and destruction, right? Like we hear about systems as these things that are “bad”. And I think I had gotten so wrapped up in this like, oh, we can't have systems, like systems are bad, like we have to go with the flow. But like, systems are not all bad - systems are what help allow for things to be sustainable and attainable, right? And there just wasn't that in place, there was some effort to put those things in place and due to the frenetic nature, due to all the things just going wrong. And yeah, due to all the things, it didn't really work out as planned. 

And I also, I was also still working through a lot of mental and physical health, issues at this time. And so, a lot of my energy was still in this space of like, I also needed to make sure I was taking care of myself, and I could not once again put myself into this cycle of burnout. I mean, I could, but I don't want to, I'm saying no to that. Putting myself in these cycles of burnout where like my mental and physical health just absolutely break, like physically, my body broke down, and that's happened multiple times and I knew I couldn't do that again, right? And so what time I could take to really have time to rest and recover it, it really resulted in having like another survival mode, basically. And not allowing the, the steps that I really wanted to have happen this season happen, I guess is how to say it, right? And that abundance is a beautiful blessing, but there wasn't the structure for abundance to happen in a beautiful way, unfortunately. So it just became like a lot to move through, and I think kinda two other aspects that really changed for me as an entrepreneur as, someone in a, a leadership role within the company. Two things really changed for me, and I have Clarinda with Decolonizing Business School to thank for this as well as kind of the Producers Academy, Creative Academy. It all kind helped me evolve to, to this place that I needed to get to, guess I'll say it that way. And I guess simultaneously, I'll also say with that evolution, I had found this really beautiful balance in my personal life to take care of my mental and physical health, a talk therapist and a body worker who both understand the other side of things. Like a talk therapist who's also a somatic experiencing practitioner, and a body worker who is also a somatic psychotherapist. So like I was working with people who understood the body holistically even though they came at it from different angles. And so I felt like as my mind, my body was going through this transformation and putting itself back together after these periods of really getting broken down, you know - when our bodies change, everything else is gonna change, and I believe that from my own experience, I believe that like, intellectually as well, like things had to change, right? Like in order for my body to be put back together - it was going to be a different story as I move forward. Like I had to evolve as a human, and that's where the entrepreneurial growth spurt and the growing pains comes from. And two really significant shifts for me - one was my relationship to work and another was my, was permission to show up as someone who has multiple careers and wears multiple hats. I think there's - I've had this opinion for a while - I think there's something really, well, there's a lot really kind of fucked up about our society, but one of the things that I find really like obnoxious is as like a normal, ordinary human, like, I'm not allowed to be multifaceted, right? Like celebrities are allowed to be a triple threat and have a clothing line and a cookbook and, you know, play an instrument really well and write a book really well. You know, they can like do all these things and they're allowed to because they're celebrities, but being like this ordinary human you're not really allowed to have multiple hats or careers. And as I had transitioned into being this full-time entrepreneur, freelancer kind of vibe, I had some people kind of like question like, what do you mean you don't do this one thing full time. Also, like, why are we striving to do one thing full time? I'm not gonna get on like the full soapbox of how outdated that is, but like, you know, it was something that I always thought about as like an adjunct. The contact hours I had with students, I think it was on average, I think I at least doubled, if not like, tripled the contact hours in a single semester as like a tenured track faculty would have in an entire year, right? So I think there's something about this idea of “full-time” being equated to experience, and it doesn't, it doesn't. I think there's, right, it's that like quantity over quality kind of a thing - quality over quantity. Yeah, it's that dynamic. 

And so - there's something about season seven along the journey where I was able to talk about running Grey Box Collective as an aspect of my professional life, and figuring out how all aspects of my professional life have informed each other and how they can all show up at the same time. Or even if they don't all necessarily show up and are helpful at the same time, I can still talk about other parts of my life. Like I feel like when I was an adjunct and also running Grey Box Collective, there was something about it that made me like “less than” in both careers. Like how can you really be an adjunct working towards tenure track if you are also doing all this stuff outside that's pulling your focus outside of the classroom, or how can you really be running an arts organization if you're also trying to like go for a tenure track position. And I think some of that's definitely coming from like, conversations that I had where people had a really hard time understanding that. I mean, I think about like, you, you go to a doctor's office or like, even when you go to like physical therapy, they're like, what do you do? And you, you have like this tiny little line that you're supposed to put in like, I don't know, like educator or teacher, right - Or accountant, it's like, that's it. I think there's, so there's that like conditioning side of why I wasn't showing up as like my whole professional self. But I think there is also a part that was about like doubting myself, like how - like, you know, what's it, I don't wanna put all my eggs in one basket, right? So like, okay, well let's see if like the adjuncting thing turns into a tenure track job. Well, let's also see if like Grey Box Collective turns into a full-time job, right? And again, like “full-time”. And guess I'll lay this out here, the goal, as like a long-term plan for Grey Box Collective is that no one works full-time. Like if you want to sure, but that people are paid well enough within Grey Box Collective that their part-time work actually allows them to live the lives that they want full-time instead. That is one of my big goals for the future structure of Grey Box Collective. No one works full time - you get to have really robust relationships and life outside of your work. And if you love work so much that you also want to be, you know, running your own company or doing your own freelance thing, that's also an option. But yeah, the goal is never full-time work, naming that - I guess I should say full-time work in the traditional sense, especially as I transition to my next thing.

The second thing that changed for me in season seven was just generally speaking, my relationship to work as a whole and, right? We hear about how rest is revolutionary and, you know, resistance and how our labor is like for the man or whatever. That has drastically changed for me - my relationship to work changed because I wasn't really working towards someone else's goals or working for like a means, means to an end, right? I'm not just working for a paycheck, I am working towards moving something out of me, to allowing an organization, to allowing performances, to allowing this platform and creating this space for artists, and, and creatives to engage with difficult conversations, right? This is where it like comes back to the mission, the vision, the purpose, all of that. It is a different energy to engage in work that feels like it is this catalyst for changing the world of the arts, changing individual's lives kind of at the very least, but like, that's also fucking huge to do, right? Like, it's different when your work is so meaningful, feels so meaningful, feels like something is being moved out into the world that can have this epic ripple effect beyond yourself. That's my relationship to work. It is incredibly intrinsically motivated. It is not about getting a six-figure job so that I can like drive a nice car, and if that is you, like cool, and that, that's something that really satisfies you and you feel fulfilled, beautiful. That's not me, like I, I want reliable transportation, I want a roof over my head and I want the funds to be able to live at a relatively comfortable place where I'm not concerned about getting my basic needs met or concerned about a medical bill. And that like, that's it like, kind of going back to this idea of abundance - I'm not a big fan of abundance. I like this idea of just enough, right? I think there is like scarcity mindset, then there's like bare minimum, then there's enough, and then there's abundance. And I am looking for enough, and there's something about my relationship to work being a way of like, okay, how can I work to the point where I feel like I have enough. I have enough to have a livelihood, I have enough to enjoy what's going on in my life and I have enough to also have time to rest, right? Like that's the other enoughness - I have enough time to rest, I have enough time to connect with the humans who are important in my life outside of this work world for me. Yeah, and I think there's a certain part about season seven where I realize I also need to walk the walk and talk the talk, right? 'Cause with Grey Box Collective and the work that we're creating, it's holding those multiple truths. It is moving away from the extremes, it's existing in the messy grey area of life and, you know, fitting into certain norms or conforming in some way. And I think it's interesting that the focus of the work we created in season seven was around Understanding Otherness. And a lot of that is also about belonging and how do we conform in order to belong? How do we other ourselves in order to fit in? And I think, again, this was like another one of those seasons where art imitates life, life imitates art, and you know, two seasons in a row. 

And it just, again, felt very spiritual both of these seasons that there are just other factors at play. And figuring out like, where do I belong in this arts ecosystem? What am I offering? What am I contributing in the bigger picture of it all? And recognizing how I had tried to fit in, like I talked in previous episodes about wanting to like be that badass boss babe, right? Like that's what it is, like I'm gonna put on that costume and put on that mask and I'm gonna just like step into this role of being, I don't know, that entrepreneur that's like Instagramable worthy entrepreneur kind of a thing. And that, that's not me, as I said early on, like I am a clunky entrepreneur and just letting that be part of it. And it was really coming down to like showing up authentically, and it was interesting for me. 

One of the, like friction points for myself in this season was what it meant for me to show up authentically at the beginning of the season was very different than what it meant to show up authentically at the end of the season. And I also believe, and this is coming from my trauma-informed lens, that like showing up consistently is so important - and I don't mean like, I guess it could also be like physically showing up someplace and showing up on time or showing up in like the same energy and all of that - but just showing up in a consistent presence is something that I think is really important for, for this kind of work that tends to address difficult topics. I think it's really important to be able to show up in consistency and so I was finding myself really conflicted about how do I show up consistently and authentically when there's been so much change in what it is for me to be authentic. And so I like could not wait for season seven to be over 'cause I was making the choice to show up in a way that felt more consistent than authentic, and of course that's going to result in some problematic things.

 So yeah, that was the long journey that I personally went through in season seven, and there were also some other things that I think I just wanna like touch on around season seven that also felt important to acknowledge or to capture, I guess, in this moment. So one of them is, having multiple entry points to development in of new work, right? This is partially coming outta Covid, but I was noticing a trend where creatives showing up and like - okay, I think there are creatives who are interested in showing up when it's like, “okay, just gimme the choreography” or like, “hey, where's the script”, right? Like creatives who like to show up to new work where there's some kind of foundation or framework already available, and then I think there are those, myself included - like, this is my Twyla Tharp, like walking into an empty white room, like yes, just give me an empty blank page, an empty canvas, an empty room, yes, I will, I'll be fine. And so acknowledging this, there was now like three entry points into development of new work, and so we had crumbs, nuggets, and muffins. And so parallel this to this idea of like making, like pumpkin pie, right? So, if like you're a crumb in the creative process, you are like roasting that pumpkin from scratch, that's how you're making your pumpkin pie. Versus like, nuggets are like the semi-homemade, like you buy canned pumpkin, and that's how you make your pumpkin pie. So you come in when there's already some kind of a sketch, some kind of an established framework, in existence. And then muffins are like store bought, so that's coming in at the end of a creative process, where there's already this really solid outline that has been in existence thanks to crumbs and nuggets - and there is no shame in wanting store-bought muffins. There, there is no shame in like the store-bought pie, or like if you prefer to roast your pumpkin from the very beginning, cool. It was about really acknowledging our own capacity of, am I in a space where I can feed forward, really support the group, the effort, and a crumb phase - or am I more in a place where like, you know what, I need someone else to get the ball rolling. My capacity is not to be in that kind of a generative space, and so I need to come in during nuggets, or is it like due to my capacity or due to work or life or whatever, I need to come in at the end of the process and be a muffin. And then we also had cupcakes, and that's like a whole nother thing. And I think like this season, everyone's kind of a cupcake - cupcakes are like, you've got your muffin, but you've got like your icing on top and maybe some sprinkles. So coming in at the very end of a process and really stepping in kinda last minute, going on the assumption that like cupcakes are basically muffins with icing. 

Season seven was also the season after working with Clarinda and after the Decolonizing Business School program I went through, and so I was really thinking about like everything in relationship to business. And the five things that I really focused on in season seven was around time, energy, and resources, including funding. And you know, time is the one that we can't get back - energy is a resource that time, might have to play a role in it. And funding, like you can write another grant, you can sell another ticket. Yes, there's some time and energy, but funding is a much more renewable resource than time and energy. I was also thinking about releasing like what, like what is necessary to let go of? This ties back to essentialism - I'm not sure when I read Essentialism, it's a fabulous book that I read more for like my personal life, but like, holy shit did it work well in the professional life? Maybe I read it for my professional, I don't remember, I read it and it changed my output. It was like one of those books that you read and you're like, ‘these are the words I've been trying to explain to people that have been in my head for so long’. So, it was a really fabulous book, and in it involved, like, what is it time to let go of, right? Especially where so much had been pieced together during COVID, so like one example was releasing that our online store was no longer in existence at the end of season seven. I really appreciated the products that were created for the store. How it, it's, I think it really served a purpose and it's time to release what it was and let it be something new, which hasn't happened yet, but right, like that kind of idea, like what could we, what did we pick up because of the times we were moving through and is it time to put it back down now. 

Another aspect I was focusing on in season seven was education, and starting, you know, season seven, it was pretty much the same exact creatives as season six. And, I felt there was a need to educate around what it is that we do - both in terms of like in our outside world through social media, but also internally. Like let's get back to what a check-in is and why we say it, and why we do what we do, right? So much had become habitual, like the why behind them had been lost or the purpose had been lost and so reconnecting with the origin stories of what we do as part of the education. Also it was about relationships and I feel that I've had pretty solid connections with individuals within Grey Box Collective, but like the number of times I've been in like a Zoom room with people and been like, oh, you all actually haven't met each other. Like, I sometimes can forget that, that I know everyone in the room, so I'm like, everyone knows everyone in the room or you've all been a part of Grey Box at some point, so you must all know each other somehow, but no. And so like with season three of Any Other Anythings, part of the reason it was everyone hosted and was interviewed was to help facilitate some relationship building, in another capacity. And then around consent - consent is something that's always gonna kind of be in the picture when trauma-informed is a huge aspect of the organization. But, consent in, in new ways, like when we agree to a rehearsal schedule, we are consenting to that rehearsal schedule. We are, consent, like what else are we consenting to with that, of how we're going to show up and support each other of how this work is going to be shared out. So really building that idea of consent into all aspects of what we do.

And there were some other elements that kind of came up for me in the training with Clarinda. That, that I also am gonna just kind of name here in a bit of a disjointed way. So season seven, I actually had a bow and arrow image once again - it was like, okay, season six it was like bow and arrow and then like, whoop, there it went some other direction. Like this is like, no, no, no, there's a trajectory and we're gonna follow it. And then it, it sort of happened, sort of didn't, I don't know, but it was a lot around bringing clarity and cohesion to the mission, the vision, the philosophy, the purpose of Grey Box Collective. There was also, about clarity and cohesion around, also of thinking about how clarity and cohesion allows for expansion. And expansion, not necessarily in like a getting like the kind of the very corporate way of thinking of it, of like bigger, better, faster, stronger, whatever. But expansion in like, how can we, you know, take up more space? How can we show up more fully? That kind of expansion, and how like systems of care can really support sustainability.

I was also thinking, I brought up like the origin story thing, but also just thinking about how we in Grey Box Collective tell stories differently. And how these stories, like, yes, there are origin stories, but we're also very much into like this nonlinear storytelling. And I'll take it further to say like it's fractured or fragmented and I think about, the works that we create, especially the evening length works like they're following an energetic arc. And I imagine like if we're thinking about like maybe story arcs that people go through, I'm gonna just go back to like where this idea originated for me. Like this, we can take it back to 2007 when I was first engaging in creating work around social justice issues and when I was thinking about the various journeys that people who have experienced sexual assault, sexual violence go through, there's an arc, right? That we, we experience and everyone's story on that arc is gonna be different, but if like we can imagine like, eight different stories with eight different arcs. It's like we get a piece of each one in the storytelling process in this fragmented, fractured storytelling process where the audience still gets to go on this arc of a journey, but you see everyone's story at a different part and you don't get the whole story. 'Cause that to me is much more, like our reality, right? Like we don't get to show up with someone and be like, okay, here's the book of me, here's the PowerPoint presentation about all of my experiences and my preferences and my expectations that I hold. You know, we don't show up with all of that - we just get pieces. We show up to people's lives and we show up in each other's lives at a certain point and I think there's something about this fragmented storytelling that allows us to kind of practice that - practice being people who just show up for a part of the journey. And yeah, that was something that was coming up for me quite loudly, in season seven.

Another note of this season - I'm just kind of like batting cleanup on a few different thoughts here. This was a season that I made a playlist, right? And it was interesting to go back and listen to that playlist 'cause man, like it is, it reminds me of like walking into a fitness center at 5am in the morning and you're just like, oh, it is just bright lights and loud sounds and like this pulsating bass that is just unnecessary. And I also think about, okay, so in like nervous system stuff, I think about how music might activate certain parts of our nervous system, and like the personification of our nervous system. If our nervous system was music is that it would just be this like really mobilizing music, right? So like steady driving tempo, really like hard hitting, and that was like all of the sounds of this playlist for season seven. And it like, it goes through a bit of a journey, like there are some quieter moments, but it was just like a really driving playlist. And I can link that in the show notes. So hopefully that can be something that you enjoy and discover, a little bit later. 

Yeah, so this has been a rather lengthy episode, so thank you if you are still with me for sticking with it. I appreciate it. And I wasn't quite sure how to end this episode, right? 'Cause it's, it's been a lot, season seven was a lot. So I, I wrote this thing, I don't even quite know what to call it - I wrote, I wrote something, going in from season six into season seven and around again, this idea of storytelling and like the kinds of stories that we're telling were redundant. Yeah, I just, as I was thinking about that fractured, fragmented storytelling, that felt like such an important thing. And when I had been thinking about that, there were other elements that came up with it. And I just jotted this down into like a couple sentences, a couple small paragraphs. And so I will end this episode by reading through it. 

"At Grey Box Collective, we don't tell stories around a topic. We share beliefs and biases, opinions, philosophies around a topic. Knowing that underneath those beliefs, biases, opinions, and philosophies are stories, upon stories, upon stories, upon stories informing them. It's a practice of showing up and trusting that even though we don't know everyone's story in this space, we do know everyone has a story. The story informs how we relate to the topic, and it's not about erasing stories or removing voices. It's about accepting and welcoming and being compassionate towards others without needing to know their whole story. No one needs to earn someone's understanding or respect, right? This comes back to being connected to full humanity with dignity, and it also for me connects to pre-verbal trauma, and thinking about what it is to be a trauma-informed arts organization. And the research is telling us that we don't actually have to talk about adverse experiences to heal from them, and that sometimes talking about them can result in an overwhelming catharsis. And there's something about this practice of how we show up in the creative process that echoes, how I hope we are showing up in our lives and with those around us".

So dear listener, checking out, how are you doing? I feel like this episode was maybe a lot. I hope that you are doing all right, and I'm curious what you're thinking about. Feel free to reach out through any of our channels for communication. Also maybe take a little time to process and integrate anything that may have come up for you in this episode. All right. Thank you for your time and energy. I greatly appreciate you being here. I appreciate you witnessing, receiving, hearing these words. Yeah, thank you. And until next time, take care of yourselves and each other.

Hey listener, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Any Other Anythings. Be sure to check out the show notes for links mentioned in the show as well as how to stay connected and learn more about Grey Box Collective. Thanks so much for your time and energy. Please take care of yourselves and each other.

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